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Re: Cold calling in Indonesia (response to post by Mr_India) | Reply
To be honest, I haven't come across any reputed companies which let a fresher negotiate salary. There may be some small companies which ask very few talented fresher about their expectations and may try to pay better if the guy has an offer from some other branded company.

In campus selections, there are definitely good changes that branded companies pay you much beyond your expectations (and you need not negotiate as you might have got better than what you would have asked) but those things happen rarely.

For those who are in college, let me tell that the pay one gets at campus selections is generally the best figure that the company could offer him/her.

[Edit: As per observation in India ]
Re: Cold calling in Indonesia (response to post by shalinmangar) | Reply
I know that few good companies differentiate freshers by different salary slabs/signing bonus, but never heard of a proper salary negotiation at fresher level.

If you know any such case, kindly share :)
Re: Cold calling in Indonesia (response to post by Mr_India) | Reply
Even in India, salaries are negotiable for people fresh out of college. But first you have to be good enough to be able to negotiate.
Working at professional startup (response to post by surana.h) | Reply
Yeah, I agree that working in a professional startup is a good place to gain valuable experience. But I also believe a totally new startup company is still a good place to work as long as the managements are experienced professional.

A startup company can be so small that you're exposed to many aspects of the business. As a consequence, from a programmer position, you can probably move to implementation consultant since only a few people understand the software the company just developed. Being an implementation consultant will open many career tracks and probably higher potential salary, without needing to have very high technical skill.

Note the risk of dooming you career if the product fail to be developed or never sold. The value of your experience will probably hold relatively smaller value on the eyes of prospective employers since there is no product in which your work result can be measured. Your resume will probably be filtered by HR guy, especially in a large company because they can afford to just reject all applications with difficult to assess quality.

If you work for a small company as a fresh graduate, it's going to be rather difficult to move to large company. But once you work from large companies, you can easily move to small companies. But the longer you leave the elite circle of large companies, the more difficult to enter it again.
Re: Cold calling in Indonesia (response to post by surana.h) | Reply
I almost forgot - One good options for salary negotiations and good work in India is startups. I have a lot of friends who are working in startups, and not only did most of them applied without any sort of referrals, but also the work is better and salaries are atleast similar to bigger companies, if not better. If you do not have contacts for referrals and am looking for jobs in which you get independence, quality work - startups are quite good.

PS: By startups, I only mean product startups, and not the outsourcing startup sweatshops. The latter are very dangerous for your career.
Re: Cold calling in Indonesia (response to post by Mr_India) | Reply
Well, even in India - salary negotiation is possible. But that is only if you have skills, that are in demand but not easily available in India. Say - If you have good implementation skills along with experience in summarization systems, then you can negotiate with a lot of companies - you are in demand.

Most other companies in India, including the ones mentioned above, and most US based (like Oracle, Accenture), do not require special skills on a fresher level at all - except basic intelligence, discipline and willingness to work hard. Almost all companies (except some like Google and Microsoft - IDC) will decide your chances of getting in with how well you know certain core subjects like OS, Architecture, DBMS etc. Your knowledge of these subjects has almost no correlation with your job. Except, it shows that you are sincere and hard working and would be able to do the kind of work that happens in such companies. Moreover, India has so many of freshers - they have to make some criteria of filtering people - That's it.
Salary negotiation for fresh grad in Indonesia (response to post by Mr_India) | Reply
For IT industry, the salary of some large multinational companies in Indonesia are negotiable, as long as it's still within their self-imposed salary range.

btw, in Indonesia, which I believe also applies elsewhere, a good bet to get a larger salary than usual is by being a contract worker who is not registered on company official payroll. By having your salary paid from a project budget, your salary won't be restricted by company's policy on salary range. If your project manager loves you, she can easily double your salary because your salary probably means little to project's profit margin. And if you work on a contract basis, you're eligible to overtime payment!

But if you ever decide to work in a company on a contract basis, consider this problem:
in short, you will be in a dilemma whether to put your experience in your resume or not, because background check may or may not reveal that you work there. If you say you did and background check say you didn't, you're considered lying. If you say you didn't and background check say you did, you will be considered omitting your work history, which in some countries are deemed as bad as lying.

Anyway, if you ever manage or forced to work on a contract basis where the company does not admit your existence, but you can somehow negotiate very high salary, expect an intense working experience. Most likely, the project manager wants to look good on paper by showing how little the need of highly-experience-employees man-hour required to run this project. Instead of using this highly-experience-employees whose cost (opportunity cost) is considered high (for performance appraisal purposes and the like), they are using _you_ instead.
Re: Cold calling in Indonesia (response to post by amitz.sekali) | Reply
And what about the salary negotiation trends, at fresher level? Do companies at your country allow that?
Cold calling in Indonesia (response to post by Mr_India) | Reply
Are you asking about the procedure of applying jobs at a company when they never mention any vacancy? (cold calling)

In Indonesia, I don't think there is any clear procedure. People do send resume/CV to HR department or individuals at the company from time to time. Direct phone calling do happen too.

Although I do know most variations of recruitment policy in medium/big companies (I sold operational and strategic HR software), I don't know the actual practice. The policy can be very strict but I don't think it's applied consistently. I can only tell you the recruitment practice of small company.

The prospect of cold calling a small not so successful company, unless it's a sales job, is almost nil. The logical explanation is ironic. If you want to work at sales, you must have good cold calling skill, which is indicated by how well you cold call this company. But if you have brilliant cold calling ability, and you apply to a non-sales job, you're basically overqualified.

In small not so successful company, even if there is a supervisory position requiring good initiative or people skill, brilliant cold calling may actually hurt your chance. Since not many people with good credentials/experiences/competencies are willling to work for small company without good reason, cold calling a small boring company is suspicious.

For reference on how common cold calling is, in 4 years of working at a small company, I received like 4 resumes/CVs out of nowhere. All were delivered by themselves. Many left resumes/CVs when they think they had a chance. One actually insists on leaving their resumes/CVs even when they were told they didn't have a chance yet.

For large companies and good medium companies (which is probably what you're interested in), they store all resumes received out of nowhere and refer to them when vacancy open. But I don't know how big is the success rate for cold calling.
Re: How employment happens in your country? (response to post by sb99) | Reply
Actually, I went through a previous thread in this forum, where it was mentioned people approach the companies directly. So I wanted to know how the procedure differs in different countries.
Re: How employment happens in your country? (response to post by Mr_India) | Reply
AFAIK, in any country, recruitment happens is the similar ways, which you have already described in your post.

I assume that you are searching out for jobs right now. Because of the intense competition and the large number of resumes received by companies (in India), the chances of getting a call when you, as a fresher, approach the company are pretty less.

Not to forget the fact that there are still many good companies like TCS , Infosys, CTS to which you can drop the resume and they call you for a screening without any referral.
How employment happens in your country? | Reply
How does a degree holder gets the first job in your country (in software industry)?

Speaking of India, its mostly through On-Campus recruitment events, conducted by the companies. Apart from that, off-campus and employee referral events also happen.

If one applies/approaches to a company directly, the chances of getting a call back from the company is negligible.Besides, there is absolutely NO salary negotiations at the fresher's level.